09/02/22 - SHIUR 386

Next year in Uman/Yerushalayim? Is it about time we brought up Reb Nachman’s Kever to Eretz Yisroel?

Should we be bringing up Reb Nachman to Eretz Yisroel? [The Halachic analysis of exhuming remains]
What is the mesorah in Breslov regarding bringing up Reb Nachman?
What did Reb Moshe Feinstein say about bringing Reb Nachman to Eretz Yisroel?
Do we really know which Kever is the Kever of Reb Nachman?
Is it permissible to go to Uman this year due to the war in Ukraine? Is it a dangerous place? Hear from boots on the ground
Hear fascinating history about bringing up Gedolim to Eretz Yisroel

Shiur Details

Should we be bringing up Reb Nachman to Eretz Yisroel? [The Halachic analysis of exhuming remains] | Do we really know which Kever is the Kever of Reb Nachman?

Is it permissible to go to Uman this year due to the war in Ukraine? Is it a dangerous place? Hear from boots on the ground

What is the mesorah in Breslov regarding bringing up Reb Nachman? | What did Reb Moshe Feinstein say about bringing Reb Nachman to Eretz Yisroel?

Hear fascinating history about bringing up Gedolim to Eretz Yisroel

Shiur Reference Material

9 Comments

Avi Levinson M.A.

As someone that has been going to Uman for 25 years, I was very interested to hear your shiur this week. In case you’re wondering, I’m not going this year. I own an apartment in Uman with Rav Elchonon Tauber, a dayan in LA, and he made it very clear to me that it is assur to go this year. While I’m not happy about it, he’s my Rav so that is the end of the discussion for me.

While I thought you were a bit tough on Rav Maimon, I think you were a bit too focused on the whole havtacha issue. I will tell you that there is always the litvak in me (I spent about 20 years in the yeshiva world) that wonders what exactly Rebbe Nachman meant about coming to him for Rosh Hashanah. I’m not even someone that learns Breslover seforim on a regular basis….you’re more likely to find me learning Rav S. R. Hirsch than a chassidishe sefer. That being said, there is another element to Breslov and Uman that is very hard to understand until you have lived it yourself and, if I may suggest, transcends the havtacha. Until you experience authentic Breslov (not the new age “everyone is going to Uman and they have great hotels and kumzites and you go daven at 10 am or later” Breslov), words alone, no matter how eloquent the author of an article or a storyteller may be, simply don’t do it justice. Until you live it, you can’t truly understand what draws people to Uman.
I believe that what attracts many people from across the spectrum to Breslov, from the unaffiliated to the chareidi, is that they are looking for a place where people are truly yearning as a klal to draw nearer to HKBH. Breslov is a chassidus that doesn’t just talk about Avodas Hashem; they put it into action more than anywhere else I have been and I have been to many places across the spectrum.
If you have time, try davening in an authentic Breslov shul on Shabbos. I would highly recommend that you go to Pe’er Hanachal in Yerushalayim which is located in Ezras Torah. It’s actually a shul that was founded by Rav Tzvi Aryeh Rosenfeld, Rav Maimon’s father in law sometime in the 1970’s. On Leil Shabbos, they will start before many chassidish shuls in the area (Breslov is very makpid on davening b’zman) and they will finish after almost everyone else. Of course they sing the usual parts of davening like Lecha Dodi but you will see a group of people who say the words Shiru LaShem with such intensity that their faces are red from exertion. Listen to simcha emanating from the people around you when they say the words “Vatorem K’reim Karni” as they welcome the gift of Shabbos into their lives. Each word of Kabolas Shabbos is like a precious gem to these people.
If your patience hasn’t worn out yet, go back there on Shabbos morning and experience a pesukei d’zimrah where every word is counted just like it is brought in halacha. Breslov doesn’t sing during kedusha but rather has a beautiful nusach for Mimkomcha. It is a nusach that truly brings out the desire to see HKBH’s presence return to Tzion. I used to tell my students at NCSY that it was in that shul you will find the real Zionists who truly yearn to see a day when the Shechina returns to Tzion.
If you have made it this far, don’t miss Shalosh Seudos. Believe it or not, unlike many chassidim, Breslov doesn’t have long and complicated niggunim. They are simple niggunim that go straight to your neshama and the place where it is most obvious is at Shalosh Seudos. You can’t help but be moved by Yetzaveh Tzur Chasdo or Yedid Nefesh. You can see the intense passion on the faces of the men around you who are literally begging through the words of the zmiros to feel HKBH’s presence in their lives.
This brings me to Uman. I have been going to Uman for about 25 years but I missed a few years for various reasons so I have gotten to see and experience Rosh Hashanah davening elsewhere, both in yeshivos and in chassidishe shuls. Each place I davened in was filled with ehrlich yidden and beautiful ba’alei tefilah but there is something unique about the davening in the Kloiz (the main minyan in Uman). Adon Olam is at 6:30 am and davening isn’t over until at least 3 pm (there is a very short break before tekios for those that want to go to the mikvah) but you don’t feel like it is a davening that is being schlepped out. Thousands of people would stand silently as Rav Carmel (who RL was taken from us by COVID-19) would break down during Shir Ha’malos before Barchu.
For the tzibbur to recite Mimkomcha, it takes about two and a half minutes and Rav Tzuker, the ba’al tefilah on the second day of Yom Tov, takes another 2-3 minutes as he sobs his way through the words Mosei Timloch B’Tzion. I used to work for NCSY I used to tell my students at that it was in that shul you will find the real Zionists who truly yearn to see a day when the Shechina returns to Tzion.
When Rav Tzuker says koli shomatah (he’s also the ba’al tokeia), you can hear the sincerity in his words as he begs that his tekios and tefilos should be worthy to ascend to the kisei hakavod. I don’t have to tell you how heartfelt the rest of the pesukim are. I’m getting emotional just writing this when I think about it and knowing that I won’t hear it this year.
When Rav Moshe Bienenstock would ascend the Bimah and begin Ashrei, he would break down in genuine tears while saying the words Karov Hashem L’chol Kor’ov. It was always a struggle for him to get through the tefilah for the ba’al musaf since he would be crying his way through it. Throughout this, you could hear a pin drop which is no easy feat in a minyan of approximately 6000-8000 people. When the final tekios would be blown, R’ Moshe’s Tiskabeil (Breslov only sing the last two parts of Kaddish) would ring out with such a force that you could almost feel as if HKBH himself came down to take the tefilos right back to the kisei hakavod.
I once had the opportunity to meet Rav Tzuker in EY and I told him that his davening gives me chizuk for an entire year. Whenever I need to feel close to HKBH, I close my eyes and listen to his roar of Nidvos Pi R’tzei Na Hashem. I have a hard time saying Tiskabeil anytime I daven before the amud without feeling the power of Uman in my bones.
I believe this experience is what attracts people to Uman and to Breslov. More than the havtacha, many people make the journey to Uman because they are looking to be part of a kahal that take their Avodas Hashem to another realm. They are looking for unvarnished and gimmick-free authenticity in their avodah. They are looking for a community that lives and breathes the words of Kol Atzmosei Tomarnah Hashem Mi Kamocha. Unfortunately, I have seen the scene in Uman devolve at some level to a “festival” over the years and it has become a huge distraction to people who are coming for the first few times….one could argue that Uman has be come the biggest gimmick. If you’re there simply as an outsider trying to write a story about it or trying to understand what is going on around you, you’ll be totally taken by all the shtusim that take place and you will completely miss the forest for the trees.
Chazal tell us that wherever there is a high level of kedusha, the Sitra Achara works even harder to bring people down by creating tremendous distractions. If you can make it down Pushkina Street and not get caught up in all the noise, you’ll make it to the Kloiz and your Rosh Hashanah will be changed forever. You will be caught up in the Barchu that rings out on the first night of Yom Tov that is inspired by the Torah of Rebbe Nachman. A Barchu that is filled with simcha that we are zoche to have these words emanate from our lips. A Barchu that is said with an intensity of yearning and desire that we should be zoche to truly crown HKBH as our King on Rosh Hashanah.
Thank you for your shiur and never shying away from difficult topics.
Wishing you and your family a Kesivah V’chasimah Tovah.

Dovid Grossbaum

Hello, my name is Dovid Grossbaum. I am a Chabad Shliach in Indianapolis and a regular listener.

I’m sure you’ll get plenty of correspondence on the recent Uman episode, but I’ll throw my two cents into the mix.

Firstly, while I’m certain you had no ill-intention, your line of questioning could have easily been interpreted as a cynical relitigation of the old tropes against Chassidim. I was extremely impressed with Rabbi Maimon’s ability to remain cordial and coherent.
The reason I email is to point out a basic שיטתייהו which would explain why the two of you seemed to speak passed each other.
One of the central revolutions of the בעל שם טוב was the ability to gauge individuals beyond their Torah-learning ability. This famously manifested in a new respect for “simple“ Yidden. But this also applies in the relationship between a Rebbe and a Chossid.
While, Torah study and teaching is the greatest element in the relationship between a Chossid and his Rebbe, it isn’t the only one by any means. Inspiration, feeling understood, warmth, direction, and many many more aspects are relevant.
So, to a Litvak that measures a Gadol based on how great of a תלמיד חכם they are, it’s almost automatic to measure the greatnesses of רבי נחמן vs. ר׳ עקיבא איגר or ר״ע vs. רשב״י. There’s only one currency so the comparisons are straightforward.
To a Chossid, greatness has far more ways to be measured. Plus, those measurements are both circumstancial (based on תכונות הנפש of the Talmid, time and place etc.) and esoteric (knowledge is easier to measure than inspiration or warmth etc.).
So while the both of you were well-spoken, the difference stems from a much more primary place.
A big יישר כח for the podcast,

Rabbi Ezra N. Goldman

R. Dovid, I very much enjoy listening to your podcasts as I drive.
Last week, you had a very entertaining show about the notion of moving R. Nachman ZL out of Uman to E”Y.  You asked the same question to many of the guests, “do you ever visit the Taz?  The Nesivos? etc.”  Great questions and I, for one, appreciate that sometimes you don’t give up an inch to the guests when they are making a point that has no basis in halacha.
My travels take me to France once a year.  A couple of years ago, I parlayed that into a visit to Prague, to see the kever of the Kli Yakar, Rav Lunshitz, in honor of his 400th yahrtzeit.
Earlier this year when I was in France, I took a train about 300 miles from Paris to Troyes to try to visit Rashi’s kever.  As you and all your guests agreed, he is everyone rebbe’s rebbe’s rebbe.  I regret to tell you that Troyes burned to the ground several times since the 1100s and we have NOTHING from rashi there. They do not know where his kever is.  There is a Rashi (they spell it Rachi) museum but they don’t claim to have any kisvei yad, connection to the family, knowledge of the location of his home, nothing.  In contrast, the jewish museum in Prague has a hand written Noda B’Yehuda in a glass case.
May hashem grant you chizuk to continue your excellent work.  Best wishes for a ksiva vashima tova.

Rabbi Yossi Marcus

בטח ידוע לכבודו שיש סרט של מישהו אומר לרבי בדולרים שהוא הולך לאומן לראש השנה. והרבי נראה לא כל כך שמח ואומר נו שיבוא משיח ואז יעשה את ראש השנה בארץ ישראל. והאורח חוזר ואומר שהוא יהיה בומן והרבי חוזר ואומר שיהיה בארץ ישראל עם המשיח. כלומר הרבי לא מעודד אותו ללכת שם

‏השם יברך את כבודו להמשיך להגדיל תורה  ולהאדירה

 

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Shiur 365 Riddle

Submitted by Neil Adler
A:

Would like to submit answer to last weeks riddle
Mishnah is Yevamos (61A) says that a Kohein Hedyot engaged or married to an almanah does not have to divorce her if he becomes Kohein Gadol. From here we learn that if a man who already has too many horses or wives and is coronated king he does not have to divorce his wives or get rid of his horses before or after the coronation.

Submitted by Rafi Miller
A:

Dear Reb Dovid,

Riddle #1: Its not clear from the gemara, but there might be some precedent to determine. The Gemara in yevamos 59a distinguishes between a kohen gadol who did kiddushin with a ketana and then she became a bogeres where we say he cannot do nisuin with her, vs someone who does kiddushin with an almana and then becomes a kohein gadol where we say he could do nisuin with her. In both cases, there is an extra word that could potentially be used for a derasha to say that its permitted, yet we only apply it in the latter case. Explains the gemara because in the former case, the woman herself changed (בגרה), therefore there could be a חלות of a new issur. But in the latter case, she never changed when he became a kohen gadol. Therefore, I would say, even if one tried to make a drasha from the pesukim of לו ירבה לו סוסים וגו׳ based on extra words, I would say that using the gemaras logic, we should say that since the horses dont change when their owners become king, so there is no new issur to be chal on the horses.

By contrast, the issurim of בל יראה ובל ימצא apply to one who owned chametz before pesach and now it became pesach (proof is that rambam says there just isnt malkus), because as the acharonim explain those issurim are there to back up the mitzva of תשביתו (see also minchas chinuch mitzva 9). But here i think the pashtus is you need a kum vieseh (see minchas chinuch 498 that one who is oiver on this gets malkus at the time of purchase)

Riddle #2: A similar question is addressed by Tosafos Yeshanim to top of kesubos 40a. there the gemara says that mifateh who is otherwise assur to her seducer with a lav cannot marry him bc we dont say aseh docheh lo sasey since she can choose to not marry him. So Tosafos yeshanim ask, why do we need a passuk in yevamos to teach that kibud av isnt docheh shabbos, there too the father could choose not to have you violate shabbos. He gives two answers:

1) although the father could choose to not have you violate, the moment he chooses to ask you, you are obligated with kibbud av. I understand his answer to refer to the question about mitzva kiyumos doche lo sa’asey. Reb Chaim in stencils in the first shtikel in yevamos seems to address it and says (according to one opinion) that mitzva kiyumos is not doche lo sa’asey, presumably since its a voluntary mitzva and not required. (see, however, Tosafos Kiddushin 34a maakeh, yesh miforshim clearly disagrees). So tosafos yishonim is maybe saying that marrying a mefateh is also a voluntary mitzva since even can choose to not marry and pay the fine. Now, this would also answer your question regarding dayanim talmidey chachamim, because once they demand their kavoid, you have no right to turn them down, its a mitzva chiyuvis, so its docheh the requirement to stand. (thats why its called mechila and, for example by mammom, the nesivus holds that mechila makes it as if the money was paid, but doesnt negate the fact that there is an obligation)

2) The mefateh doesnt have the mitzva to marry her seducer and she still has the lav, so for her its a problem. However, the father doesnt have a mitzva to have his honor upheld, but is not the one violating shabbos anyways! This can perhaps answer the gemara in shavuos as well, since -possibly- the talmud chacham also has a Mitzva to be mechabeid his own Torah (so long as hes not mochel), so even by him there is an esah dochech lo saasay.

(according to tosafos pesachim 4a vichi and elsewhere there are times when one can violate a lo sa’asey that is nidcheh by another persons asey, even if the asey doesnt apply to the one who is violating himself). Thanks for your engaging podcasts!

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Rabbi Ari Enkin, Rabbi Yechiel Goldhaber, Rabbi Nasan Maimon, Rabbi Moshe Azman
Next year in Uman/Yerushalayim? Is it about time we brought up Reb Nachman’s Kever to Eretz Yisroel?
Downloads :
Rabbi Ari Enkin, Rabbi Yechiel Goldhaber, Rabbi Nasan Maimon, Rabbi Moshe Azman
Next year in Uman/Yerushalayim? Is it about time we brought up Reb Nachman’s Kever to Eretz Yisroel?
Downloads :
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