The Brisker Rov zt”l and Medinas Yisroel | Rav Shach zt”l and the IDF (צה”ל) – What did they really hold?

have been listening to your podcasts about Eretz Yisroel with great interest. I appreciate understanding the differences of opinions out there regarding the medina and the IDF soldiers. What became clear to me from these podcasts that even though the Satmar Rebbe or other Gedolim oppposed the Medina, there was ahavas yisroel and rachmanus for the soldiers and other people who had different views from them. What is troubling to me is that so many yeshivos and Bais Yaakov fail to impart those messages. Many students know what their yeshiva feel about a certain issue but are lacking the sensitivity to understand that this must go along with empathy for other fellow jews and they become very narrow minded and cannot see past their views. I send my children to a wonderful yeshiva in Passaic NJ. There are so many things that I love about the school. However, their approach to this war was a great disappointment to me. They chose not to discuss this issue with the kids. Of course there was Tehillim, daveining but I felt it was a bit in a detached way. The soldiers were never mentioned and that we should have Hakaras Hatov was never discussed. I wrote a letter to the principal about this and he did not disagree with my points but pointed out that children are not capable of truly understanding these messages. I disagree for many levels. That issue aside, I feel that if we just downplay the issue when all the kids know that the war is going on and most of the parent body is completely pro Isreal, the result is apathy for our fellow jews. I believe that what is happening the school is afraid to outright support Israel and therefore is avoiding mentioning the soldiers names. They will mention the misplaced people etc.This in my opinion is not ahavas Yisroel. These are fellow jews dying on the battlefield . The topic I would like to see in a podcast, if the Rabonim of all these movement were truly great people with such a balanced view of things, why are mechanchim so quick to give over their views about Israel/learning/ without emphasizing that whatever our views are, an adam shalom had empathy, cares about individuals who don’t think like them etc. When you listen to these students they often don’t display and understanding of both sides of the argument without a clear bias. We can’t say its the generation today because the Rebbeim and Morahs are teaching this generation and they themselves are often unclear about the issues and how things have changed.Perhaps, this generation needs such lessons. I would love to hear from Roshei Yeshivos and principaals about this issue. I hope I have presented my question clearly.

Dear R. Dovid Lichtenstein,
I chuckled listening to your commentary this episode about the hate messages you get-that you’d love to put them in the kever with you but they are voice messages. I decided to put in writing that (and my wife who I think would allow me to speak for her on this-and we don’t agree on everything) are lovers of your podcast and appreciate very much your perspective and the unique way you have been able to communicate it via your podcast. We also appreciate the perspective of your guests and your interviews. I truly believe this podcast is a great asset to Klal Yisrael. I know it’s not exactly what you’re looking for, but feel free to put this in your kever.

Reb Dovid:

Shalom. I listened to the episode in which you interviewed Rabbi Einhorn about Hakaras hatov toward the Chayalim. His whole perspective was not only uncompelling but distasteful. There was an episode that Ari Wasserman hosted which featured Rabbi YY Jacbobson. He was was spot-on on the question and delivered a passionate monologue, basically tearing kriya on the very question and going on to state that a Torah without a neshoma is sorely lacking.

My takeaways from Rabbi Einhorn’s perspective were that:

(1) he maintains the old legacy “broygiss” against Tziyonim and tried to fit in the current anti-Medinah attitude into things that the Brisker Rov may or may not have said 60 years ago. During the discussion, he just could not bring himself to see any value in Medinas Yisrael and anything connected to it.
(2) it was an extreme “us vs. them” narrative, with “us” being the extreme Chareidi view and “them” being Chilonim and Dati Leumi. That is no antithetical to our tradition and with the Churban and all of the subsequent Tisha B’Av’s saying Kinnos and crying on the floor, I can’t believe that there are still people who think in those terms.

I would have asked him how many people or family that he both knows directly and has some level of relationship with, who is either a Chayal, someone murdered by Hamas, or a hostage. I would venture to say that if he would have said even one, I would have been shocked. That’s a testament to the fact that the Chareidi vel has been remarkably successful in insulating itself from the rest of Am Yisrael and as such have no connections whatsoever. Such connections might engender a “tippah” of empathy.

I would have also asked him about the value of the Torah being learned in the Dat leumi Yeshivot and pre-army Mechinot. If there is indeed a manpower shortage, and those groups have to extend their service to cover for Chareidim with the carte blanche exemptions, then the cheshbon is that the Torah of a Chareidi guy who cannot sit in a Beis Medrish for more than 20 minutes at a time is greater than the Hesder guy who wrote the 15 page kuntriss on rubah d’leisa kamman.

Furthermore, by supporting the wholesale IDF exemptions for all Chareidim, whether they have acumen in learning or not, given the staffing need, they are also forcing young women to staff the IDF’s intelligence and support units. That type of service was “yaharog v’al yaavor” according to the Chazon Ish. So, the extreme Charedi view is contributing to that alleged aveira.